02-05-2012, 03:45 PM
Hi,
I feel another saga coming on so please sit back as this might prove better than Horlicks at bedtime.
I'll add the thread here because as the story unfolds it has a lot in common with cabinetwork.
As usual I'll just ramble away and start at the very beginning. Bron and I have been happy customers visiting Boundary Mills Retail Outlet in Colne for many years. The original Boundary was located in a very old mill complex on the same site as a large Asda supermarket. About four years ago a brand new purpose built building was built at the very end of the M65 and this is a superb building. Whilst visiting a few weeks ago I once again was fascinated by the finish on the toilet doors; yes I know I'm sad. The finish appeared to be Burr Walnut veneer or something similar but I knew it was not real wood veneer because a single sheet of Burr Walnut doesn't come in full door sizes so my guess was Formica.
I surfed the web for hours trying to track this material down but without success. Once I want something I don't easily give up so with a lot of cheek I contacted Boundary by email asking for them to please enlighten me whilst also explaining I wished to obtain some of this material for a home made bespoke computer desk I was hoping to design and make.
I was amazed to receive a rapid reply from a lovely lady called Joanne. Joanne had very kindly contacted the original door installers and asked them what the material was. The material is Formica Mahogany Burl F2559. Unfortunately this is now discontinued but Joanne very kindly added a link to a website giving me a warning that a best guess for a sheet of 10' x 4' real wood veneer would cost around £200 per sheet. I quickly replied and thanked Joanne for going to such trouble upon my behalf and received yet another message; Boundary are opening a new store in Catcliffe near Rotherham. This is good news for us because it is much nearer and we already shop at Meadowhall.
http://www.leeuwenburgh.com/home.php?subsection=&lang=en
£200 per sheet for real wood veneer; Mahogany Burl? Assuming this to be available I shudder to think what it would be like to lay up such brittle veneer in a large sheet using hot hide glue and using the hammer method. At least this was a good starting point and if I was stuck £200 was not beyond my price range.
So now I had it confirmed that the material I saw was in fact Formica so at least I was right about it being a laminate; I needed to spend time doing some research. More hours were spent surfing the web and it was most depressing as all the sites kept giving me the run around until I struck gold. I found a site in Morley near Leeds that is only a short drive away from us and although the company didn't stock the Mahogany Burl it did stock another beautiful pattern. I exchanged a number of emails with the company and obtained sizes and prices. Delighted with this I then requested two laminate samples which arrived within two days. Boy these samples looked wonderful and as soon as Bron saw them she asked if I would install new work surfaces in the kitchen as she selected one of the samples. Of course I would be delighted to do this for Bron so I set about ordering two sheets; one for the desk the other for the kitchen. The sheets are huge being 3050mm x 1300mm each; imagine a full size work surface then double the width and add a bit more.
Whilst waiting for the samples I did more web surfing but now I had the product codes to work from and quickly located a picture of one of the samples. I was worried about the sheer size of these sheets but I found out by watching videos on “You tube” that the sheets are coiled for delivery. It's over 30 years ago that I laid any Formica using contact cement and there are many excellent videos on you tube showing the procedure. Here's one such video;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_G_s1m8fmo&feature=related
I asked how much postage would cost for the two sheets and was quoted £45. My next enquiry was to check if two sheets were in stock and what time they closed. It took less than two hours to pop over to Morley and collect the sheets saving quite a bit of money. It's amazing what can be squeezed into a little Toyota Aygo; I did take along plenty of clean carpet and bed sheets to pack the sheets from rolling around in the car. I'm very inquisitive (nosy) and on site after paying the bill I was asked to drive around to the warehouse so it didn't take me long to gain access into the warehouse and have a natter with the two guys dealing with my order. I was keen to see how the sheets would be coiled and I'm now happy to pass this information on.
Located in the warehouse is a large “U” shaped table at waist height the closed end being fitted to its top surface with a large roller drum. The sheet/s of laminate are placed on the table and aligned with the drum then the operator simply walks forward into the table opening whilst pushing the Formica sheet/s towards the drum which revolves under manual power forming a large coil; I didn't see exactly how the end of the start of the sheet's were tucked under to start the coil but the operation was very interesting; multiple sheets can be coiled as easily as a single sheet. Restraining packing was attached to the formed coil to prevent unrolling then the sheets were removed from the drum. I received the two samples at dinnertime and by 3pm the laminate was home in my workshop. This laminate is very heavy and a real pain to handle; carrying from the car into the workshop almost put my light out for good and I had to handle it very gently because laminate is extremely brittle material.
Now for some excellent news. The two samples I received are Formica Fundamentals Burled Amberwood 0352 GLS and Formica Amber Burl F1118 GLS; the GLS being gloss finish.
Amberwood F0352; 3050mm x 1300mm £30.70 each plus VAT.
Amber Burl F1118 3050mm x 1220mm £64.70 each plus VAT.
I was confused whilst studying the prices as the smaller sized sheet of what appeared to be identical material was almost twice the price of the larger sheet. I emailed to check if this was correct to be informed that the price difference was down to nothing more than two different ranges. Of course I bought the cheaper of the two and it looks stunning. Total cost £73.68. International Decorative Surfaces are excellent to deal with and respond rapidly to email requests; they got my business and no doubt I'll be buying more from them in future.
http://www.idsurfaces.co.uk/c-3780-inter...gloss.aspx
Formica as bought.
I'm now committed to making this desk and so far I've already spent many hours just tracking down and buying the laminate. Next job will be to finalize a design and draw up a cutting list of materials. My plan is to use this laminate as inlay panels surrounded by a solid oak frame. I've never seen this done so it will be a nice challenge for me and an expensive one if I get it wrong. I've also spent a lot of time surfing the web for solid oak but I think I'll be better visiting our local timber merchants to see what they have in stock and to inspect the quality of the boards.
Oak or indeed any hardwood is usually sold by the board in random widths and lengths although thickness is always cut to a standard size. Buying hardwood in this manner really does cause many problems and complications for novices; it's not a case of popping down to a timber yard and buying lengths of dimensioned planed all round timber. Hardwood resembles firewood to look at it being rough sawn. It is possible to get the hardwood machined to dimension assuming your pocket is deep enough. I have suitable machinery for dimensioning timber; the Startrite combination machine has five functions including sawing and thicknessing; it will thickness a board up to 10” wide so has good capacity. The panels to accept the laminate will be either MDF or plywood.
I'm used to making furniture both fitted and free standing but I've never attempted using Formica laminate as inlay panels and I can see many and varied problems ahead as the work proper begins.
The carpet fitters have just departed and the new red carpet sets the hall off nicely ready for the new desk.
I'm sticking my neck out once again because I'll either succeed or fail miserably but one thing is for certain; I aim to enjoy myself. I'll keep updating as the work unfolds but this is a good start.
Kind regards, Col.
I feel another saga coming on so please sit back as this might prove better than Horlicks at bedtime.
I'll add the thread here because as the story unfolds it has a lot in common with cabinetwork.
As usual I'll just ramble away and start at the very beginning. Bron and I have been happy customers visiting Boundary Mills Retail Outlet in Colne for many years. The original Boundary was located in a very old mill complex on the same site as a large Asda supermarket. About four years ago a brand new purpose built building was built at the very end of the M65 and this is a superb building. Whilst visiting a few weeks ago I once again was fascinated by the finish on the toilet doors; yes I know I'm sad. The finish appeared to be Burr Walnut veneer or something similar but I knew it was not real wood veneer because a single sheet of Burr Walnut doesn't come in full door sizes so my guess was Formica.
I surfed the web for hours trying to track this material down but without success. Once I want something I don't easily give up so with a lot of cheek I contacted Boundary by email asking for them to please enlighten me whilst also explaining I wished to obtain some of this material for a home made bespoke computer desk I was hoping to design and make.
I was amazed to receive a rapid reply from a lovely lady called Joanne. Joanne had very kindly contacted the original door installers and asked them what the material was. The material is Formica Mahogany Burl F2559. Unfortunately this is now discontinued but Joanne very kindly added a link to a website giving me a warning that a best guess for a sheet of 10' x 4' real wood veneer would cost around £200 per sheet. I quickly replied and thanked Joanne for going to such trouble upon my behalf and received yet another message; Boundary are opening a new store in Catcliffe near Rotherham. This is good news for us because it is much nearer and we already shop at Meadowhall.
http://www.leeuwenburgh.com/home.php?subsection=&lang=en
£200 per sheet for real wood veneer; Mahogany Burl? Assuming this to be available I shudder to think what it would be like to lay up such brittle veneer in a large sheet using hot hide glue and using the hammer method. At least this was a good starting point and if I was stuck £200 was not beyond my price range.
So now I had it confirmed that the material I saw was in fact Formica so at least I was right about it being a laminate; I needed to spend time doing some research. More hours were spent surfing the web and it was most depressing as all the sites kept giving me the run around until I struck gold. I found a site in Morley near Leeds that is only a short drive away from us and although the company didn't stock the Mahogany Burl it did stock another beautiful pattern. I exchanged a number of emails with the company and obtained sizes and prices. Delighted with this I then requested two laminate samples which arrived within two days. Boy these samples looked wonderful and as soon as Bron saw them she asked if I would install new work surfaces in the kitchen as she selected one of the samples. Of course I would be delighted to do this for Bron so I set about ordering two sheets; one for the desk the other for the kitchen. The sheets are huge being 3050mm x 1300mm each; imagine a full size work surface then double the width and add a bit more.
Whilst waiting for the samples I did more web surfing but now I had the product codes to work from and quickly located a picture of one of the samples. I was worried about the sheer size of these sheets but I found out by watching videos on “You tube” that the sheets are coiled for delivery. It's over 30 years ago that I laid any Formica using contact cement and there are many excellent videos on you tube showing the procedure. Here's one such video;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_G_s1m8fmo&feature=related
I asked how much postage would cost for the two sheets and was quoted £45. My next enquiry was to check if two sheets were in stock and what time they closed. It took less than two hours to pop over to Morley and collect the sheets saving quite a bit of money. It's amazing what can be squeezed into a little Toyota Aygo; I did take along plenty of clean carpet and bed sheets to pack the sheets from rolling around in the car. I'm very inquisitive (nosy) and on site after paying the bill I was asked to drive around to the warehouse so it didn't take me long to gain access into the warehouse and have a natter with the two guys dealing with my order. I was keen to see how the sheets would be coiled and I'm now happy to pass this information on.
Located in the warehouse is a large “U” shaped table at waist height the closed end being fitted to its top surface with a large roller drum. The sheet/s of laminate are placed on the table and aligned with the drum then the operator simply walks forward into the table opening whilst pushing the Formica sheet/s towards the drum which revolves under manual power forming a large coil; I didn't see exactly how the end of the start of the sheet's were tucked under to start the coil but the operation was very interesting; multiple sheets can be coiled as easily as a single sheet. Restraining packing was attached to the formed coil to prevent unrolling then the sheets were removed from the drum. I received the two samples at dinnertime and by 3pm the laminate was home in my workshop. This laminate is very heavy and a real pain to handle; carrying from the car into the workshop almost put my light out for good and I had to handle it very gently because laminate is extremely brittle material.
Now for some excellent news. The two samples I received are Formica Fundamentals Burled Amberwood 0352 GLS and Formica Amber Burl F1118 GLS; the GLS being gloss finish.
Amberwood F0352; 3050mm x 1300mm £30.70 each plus VAT.
Amber Burl F1118 3050mm x 1220mm £64.70 each plus VAT.
I was confused whilst studying the prices as the smaller sized sheet of what appeared to be identical material was almost twice the price of the larger sheet. I emailed to check if this was correct to be informed that the price difference was down to nothing more than two different ranges. Of course I bought the cheaper of the two and it looks stunning. Total cost £73.68. International Decorative Surfaces are excellent to deal with and respond rapidly to email requests; they got my business and no doubt I'll be buying more from them in future.
http://www.idsurfaces.co.uk/c-3780-inter...gloss.aspx
Formica as bought.
I'm now committed to making this desk and so far I've already spent many hours just tracking down and buying the laminate. Next job will be to finalize a design and draw up a cutting list of materials. My plan is to use this laminate as inlay panels surrounded by a solid oak frame. I've never seen this done so it will be a nice challenge for me and an expensive one if I get it wrong. I've also spent a lot of time surfing the web for solid oak but I think I'll be better visiting our local timber merchants to see what they have in stock and to inspect the quality of the boards.
Oak or indeed any hardwood is usually sold by the board in random widths and lengths although thickness is always cut to a standard size. Buying hardwood in this manner really does cause many problems and complications for novices; it's not a case of popping down to a timber yard and buying lengths of dimensioned planed all round timber. Hardwood resembles firewood to look at it being rough sawn. It is possible to get the hardwood machined to dimension assuming your pocket is deep enough. I have suitable machinery for dimensioning timber; the Startrite combination machine has five functions including sawing and thicknessing; it will thickness a board up to 10” wide so has good capacity. The panels to accept the laminate will be either MDF or plywood.
I'm used to making furniture both fitted and free standing but I've never attempted using Formica laminate as inlay panels and I can see many and varied problems ahead as the work proper begins.
The carpet fitters have just departed and the new red carpet sets the hall off nicely ready for the new desk.
I'm sticking my neck out once again because I'll either succeed or fail miserably but one thing is for certain; I aim to enjoy myself. I'll keep updating as the work unfolds but this is a good start.
Kind regards, Col.
Happiness is a wreck of a cabinet to restore.