Regenerative Braking

[DrStrangelove]

I read complaints from owners of EVs that the insurance costs had risen remarkably this year.

As in up 950% in one case.

Many insurers refusing to quote.

£5k a year to insure the damn thing?

Academic for me since I seem to have given up driving, though my late father was still driving at 92 (however I now realise he really shouldn't have been).

[joebog1]

A few more need to catch fire and they wont be insurable at all.
I have read this thread with interest as I do believe that one day they will make a decent electric car.
I dont think I will be here though. Mike's observations are very interesting, but who cares if it connects to the phone ????.
That one has me quite confused. Queensland just spent some millions of dollars installing "anti phone cameras " all over the state.
Has cameras, but no chargers, and in most inland areas no phone coverage anyway.
I think they will have to stop using wondowz as the OS too, stopping for no reason rings a bell or three ( maybe four ) in my memory.

All that said, they probably are practical in Britain, as its very small and densly populated, with lots of ( clogged ) roads, or is that lanes ??.
Without having 1000 kliks range they are totally useless in australia at present.

Joe

[Cobaltblue]

Well I am insuring one Plug in Hybrid Mitzi PHEV and a Tesla Dual motor model Y the later on business use and its still under £650 a year for the Tesla.

I would not believe all the Carp you read about electric cars.

It amuses me no end that a lot of those disseminating this miss info haven't told their insurers about the modifications they have made to their ICE cars.

I sometimes think that they are afraid that electric cars are so quiet they will have to go back to putting something in the spokes to make a noise like on their bikes when they were 10.

The only people I know of who are getting silly quotes are because they want to allow a teenager to drive an electric car with a 0 to 60 of under 4 seconds and a top speed of 150MPH

Guess what the insurers are not so keen on that!

Teenagers are best kept in vehicles that do 0 to 60 eventually and 80mph if the wind is behind you (helps to keep them alive until they get common sense) (we were all the same).
 
Cheers

Mike T

[joebog1]

I dont believe its all carp Mike, in fact we have had quite a few catch fire here too. By quite a few I cant quote figures, but MUCH more commonly than ICE vehicles.
As far as noise goes, my ICE car is very quiet!! and I like it that way.
I am not in favour of the Fartly Turdelson mufflers that are fitted to them and believe they should be put off the road untill repaired.
I also agree with modifications !!, although I have a large steel bullbar fitted ( legally ) and big suspension, BUT thats because your Tesla Y would tear its guts out on our roads.
My nephew works for a large solar company in Brisbane and has a Tesla Y as his company car as a promotional thing. He was Juniour Mr Motocross a couple of times though, so he can drive pretty well.

My 2 litre diesel 4WD costs me $750 a year to insure. The car is probably worth twice that.

Joe

[Cobaltblue]

A few more need to catch fire and they wont be insurable at all.
I have read this thread with interest as I do believe that one day they will make a decent electric car.
I dont think I will be here though. Mike's observations are very interesting, but who cares if it connects to the phone ????.
That one has me quite confused. Queensland just spent some millions of dollars installing "anti phone cameras " all over the state.
Has cameras, but no chargers, and in most inland areas no phone coverage anyway.
I think they will have to stop using wondowz as the OS too, stopping for no reason rings a bell or three ( maybe four ) in my memory.

All that said, they probably are practical in Britain, as its very small and densly populated, with lots of ( clogged ) roads, or is that lanes ??.
Without having 1000 kliks range they are totally useless in australia at present.

Joe

That does make me laugh.
The number of EV's catching fire compared to ICE is far lower despite a few morons trying to state otherwise I think the figures are 0.1% of ICE cars as opposed to 0.0012% of EV's
Joe connecting to my phone is essential to the operation of the car it unlocks the car and allows me to drive it deals with billing when I charge all seamlessly.
This has nothing to do with making calls although on most cars you can do that and messaging by voice command as I also do on my Mitzi.
As this is a UK based forum with respects no one least of all me lives a Sh*t about Australia when it comes to EV. I don't live in Australia.

Cheers

Mike T

[Cobaltblue]

I dont believe its all carp Mike, in fact we have had quite a few catch fire here too. By quite a few I cant quote figures, but MUCH more commonly than ICE vehicles.
As far as noise goes, my ICE car is very quiet!! and I like it that way.
I am not in favour of the Fartly Turdelson mufflers that are fitted to them and believe they should be put off the road untill repaired.
I also agree with modifications !!, although I have a large steel bullbar fitted ( legally ) and big suspension, BUT thats because your Tesla Y would tear its guts out on our roads.
My nephew works for a large solar company in Brisbane and has a Tesla Y as his company car as a promotional thing. He was Juniour Mr Motocross a couple of times though, so he can drive pretty well.

My 2 litre diesel 4WD costs me $750 a year to insure. The car is probably worth twice that.

Joe

Your figures are b******* read this  Electric vehicle fires are very rare. The risk for petrol and diesel vehicles is at least 20 times higher (theconversation.com)

Bull bars are illegal in the UK as they are dangerous for pedestrians 

So it costs me about 1300 Australian dollars to insure a 106,000 Australian dollar car for business use I'd say your being ripped of if your paying that much.

And once again I don't live in Australia so I  don't care about your shite roads.

Cheers

Mike T

[Mark Hennessy]

Chaps,

This is the risk of allowing the discussion of certain topics where there's the potential for things to get heated.

Joe, you know that I share Mike's frustration with some of your posts in this thread. Certain groups with vested interests are all to quick to create misinformation about EVs, and it's a shame to see intelligent engineers repeat it with seemingly little research or critical thinking of their own. That might not be the case here, but what you've written suggests it, and that's not a good look. A bit more balance and consideration would help, please. And as I've already said - and you yourself have also mentioned - this is not Australia, so things are very different here. So why try to impose your views on EVs so strongly on us? Oh, and as we've also already covered, the point of connecting your phone to the car (via Bluetooth, so it automatically happens once initially paired) is to remove the need for people to touch their phones while driving (which is illegal in the UK, even when stopped in queuing traffic - you have to be "safely parked"). Calls can be totally hands-free, or rejected by just pressing a button on the steering wheel (or initiated or rejected via voice commands). This basic functionality is present on all modern vehicles, and has been for many years. More advanced functionality is (legally) available in many cars via the built in touchscreen, but you don't have to use it (I mostly don't, but it's a good way to get maps that are "live", as opposed to a stand-alone sat-nav). So let's drop that line of attack, please.

Mike, can I very gently remind you about Rule 2, please? Again, I share your frustration, but let's keep it family-friendly.

I don't want to close this thread, as there's no doubt EVs are an interesting topic. Even if we don't see ourselves owning one in the future, there's still lots of interesting areas for engineers to look into - the drive electronics, for example. In the same way that switched-mode power supplies drove the development of suitable switching transistors and control ICs, EVs are pushing that to the next level, which benefits other areas of power electronics. And the pace of battery technology development is being accelerated too, which will benefit other devices that we all own, like phones, tablets and laptops. All of this helps to drive the decarbonisation of energy, which is essential for obvious reasons. Even if you're personally planning to stick with fossil fuels, everyone is free to make their choices - but we're engineers, so let's try to be a bit more far-sighted as technology evolves.

[Cobaltblue]

I would like to offer my apologies to Mark and Joe and other forum users for my outburst.

Having first hand knowledge of EV's now for 10 years and working in a company where we supply and maintain EV chargers I see the "inside track" of realistic reporting of EV issues.

It was over ten years ago that I drove one of the first Gen Nissan Leaf EV cars and it was quite a revelation

Our company fleet of EV's is around 150 (in the UK) now and rising (our engineers and technicians have to use EV vehicles in the TfL area when their vehicle is up for replacement) and some of my field colleagues are on their third EV fleet car.

It's infuriating when those with no first hand knowledge trot out the same old nonsense.

I have tried to relate my experience with my own EV and my now 5 year old MITZI (plug in Hybrid).

If either bursts into flames I'll let you all know 

For those that don't know I also have an MGBGT rusting away (as they do).

The problem is if you attack someone for having an EV they are hardly going to help you support their case by pointing out that they also have an interest in ICE cars.

I think the issue that's often overlooked and Mark touched on it is that modern ICE cars are now so complex that at 10 years they are every bit as unrepairable as a 10 year old EV.

In both cases the Engine/Motor will be good but all of the control gear around it will make the car BER if it fails.

As for batteries there's a lot of speculation out there but for the current generation of battery we won't know the absolute truth for another 5 or 6 years.

Incidentally of all my colleagues with EV's and PHEV's the only batteries that failed were the 12V lead acid a few of those failed on Mitzis (not mine so far).

Cheers

Mike T

[ppppenguin]

I wonder what will happen with EVs at the bottom end of the market. You can buy tatty but usable ICE cars for £2K, perhaps less. They probably won't be ULEZ compliant but that leaves a lot of the UK where people can realistically use them. Garages know how to fix them; ultimately they die from ironworm or something (could be complicated electronics) putting them BER.

EVs are a lot simpler than ICE. They can still rot but the big unknown, as Mike says, is the battery. Will EV batteries be good for the life of the car, perhaps 250K miles? No idea. Will there be aftermarket battery refurb companies? It's an obvious business opportunity but taking 3rd party electric scooter batteries as an example, will they be safe? No idea.

A lot of questions but if there's a demand, entrepreneurs seem to find an answer. It's only a tiny battery, but there must be loads of old Toyota Prius around, being maintained by backstreet mechanics. HEVRA: https://hevra.org.uk/ is how a lot of smaller garages are getting the ability to work on EVs.

[Kalee20]

I'm considering electric power for my next vehicle, much as I like Rudolf Diesel's prime mover.

I've always had a soft spot for the Morris Commercial J-type van, and I see some people are preparing to build an electric version, like this.