Battery Powered Vehicles, The Future??

[Murphyv310]

Well this looks like the future https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-45179722

Scottish research too and a big boost with all the comings and goings of Brexit.

[ppppenguin]

Surely that's a flow battery repurposed for vehicle use. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flow_battery

If you're using a flow battery for grid scale or other staitc storage then bulk and weight hardly matter if it works well otherwise. It's one of the more promising grid scale storage solutions which ought to be a better long term bet than masses of lithium batteries. For vehicles the issue is energy density. Current flow batteries aren't designed to be lightweight so if they can crack that they could well have a winner.

[Murphyv310]

It could well be. One of my friends has been working with the team and I was vowed to silence, I was told it's old hat but very much improved, no other details though other than the likes of Tesla will get a gunk and this system isn't reliant on scarce minerals.
Now its published I'm sure more details will emerge.

[ppppenguin]

The idea of using a flow battery in a vehicle isn't new. This paper is from 1988: https://s3.amazonaws.com/academia.edu.do...GZ2Y53UL3A&Expires=1534330441&Signature=JQDMi0Tv8M%2F1g1EPFSOL%2FFH%2FoZc%3D&response-content-disposition=inline%3B%20filename%3DInfluence_of_substrate_bias_on_the_struc.pdf

2 years ago this article suggested flow batteries as wildcard for EVs: https://www.idtechex.com/research/articl...010075.asp

Current news reports are based on this research at Glasgow: https://www.gla.ac.uk/news/headline_601603_en.html

I think we're still a fair way from this being mainstream technology for cars (flow batteries are already fairly well developed for staitc storage) but it's good to see that there's research in the field as lithium batteries with charging stations are far from ideal.

Not just in the developed world: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45084671

[Murphyv310]

Hi.
The government and so many of us seem to forget the existing methods will gradually go if we move to "rechargeable" vehicles.
Even at a local level there will be far fewer "filling stations", tankers and drivers will be be greatly reduced, technicians who service and calibrate pumps will reduce in numbers and loads more, dont forget the industries that make pumps, the garages that service the tankers and all that is needed in the supply chain.
Granted new jobs will be created for charging systems, road works to lay new cables and other items related to infrastructure.
If the flow cell (or whatever it turns out to be) can be developed quickly and proven to be a success then perhaps the government and the electric supply companies could save a lot of work and money as this new idea would in fact run in a similar way to how things work now, thus saving a fortune for everyone including the tax payer.
Lets hope this new development works as I personally think its the way to go.

[ppppenguin]

My vintage self always thought it was a shame when petrol pumps replaced fuel bought in cans

You can always guarantee theat changes will happen, that some jobs will go, others will arrive. What happened to all the petrol pump attendants when self service became the norm?

[boater sam]

Its Back to The Future 4, flux converter.

[Murphyv310]

My vintage self always thought it  was a shame when petrol pumps replaced fuel bought in cans

You can always guarantee theat changes will happen, that some jobs will go, others will arrive. What happened to all the petrol pump attendants when self service became the norm?

That's for sure. We do have an infrastructure in place and it could be an easier adaption for flow cell systems rather than tear up the country for charging points.

[Refugee]

There would be very few tanker lorries to support flow cells because the discharged electrolyte is simply removed from cars and put into a big battery that is then charged overnight to produce more electrolyte for the following day.
The station would only need a small amount of chemicals to trim the electrolyte stock occasionally.
Service stations would act as night loads on the national energy network.

[ppppenguin]

Refugee's point is actually even more significant. It's not just "night loads", it's a potentially much broader capability of distributed grid scale storage. Such storage is essential to maximise the benefits of renewables. Actually it's not fully fledged grid scale storage because it's only a sink for excess power, not a source. Unless combined with static flow batteries which might be feasible ont he same site. While cars with lithium batteries can act as distributed grid scale storage, they also have the potential to cause problems with peak demand. Charging points may well need extensive network reinforcement. Flow battery recharge stations should be a lot kinder to the network.