11-02-2013, 11:46 AM
Hi,
Yes Lawrence these speed clamps are simply brilliant and a pleasure to use as they can rapidly be applied with a lot of pressure one handed; for many years I've used the standard metal screw type "G" cramps but these can be a real pain needing three hands to get the cramps into position whilst holding the work. I bought my first plastic speed clamp from Poundland and was so impressed that I bought more from Aldi; I'll buy more still if I see any on sale.
Many thanks Gary I'm pleased you too are making good progress with your project. Regarding using super glue to attach loose veneer; I'm using this project as a prototype trying techniques and ideas out. The bit of loose veneer would have easily glued back into position using hide glue and normally I would have made up a small quantity of fresh hide glue but in this instance I had the super glue to hand and after watching the demonstration I thought I would try it out. David and I watched the guy selling this super glue apply a very small quantity to two large steel nuts pressing the nuts together by hand for a few seconds then we were amazed when he threw the nuts onto the floor with quite a bit of force and they didn't come apart.
Normally Gary I would never use super glue on a project such as this especially if I was to use stain but as I don't intend to stain or even part with the cabinet once its restored I wanted to test the superglue because I have other ideas in my head where the use of superglue might come in useful. I removed the clamps last night and sure enough the veneer had gone down tight and remains secure so the glue is so far excellent. Using the glue was extremely easy and with the fine nozzle it went where intended and capillary action drew it deep into the gap; I'm confident that the joint will hold indefinitely but I can understand your concern; long term I'll not be parting with this cabinet so if the joint does ever let go whilst in my care it won't be a problem for me to re-make the joint using hide glue. Had the joint been larger I would not have used the super glue because I'm a fan of hide glue which is perfect for hammer veneering. Here is the joint which will look much better once finished.
Super glued and clamped. Secured joint.
I think Gary if you was faced with trying to trim the veneer accurately around the openings using a knife; abrasive paper or files you would have had one almighty struggle resulting in lots of frustration. I found it very difficult just trying to remove excess veneer with a very sharp craft knife; this veneer is incredibly brittle and as the knife broke through in places it was grabbed by the veneer with great risk of damaging the veneer. Because the veneer was overhanging a rounded over moulding (quadrant) I could not determine an exact cutting line in order to use a steel straightedge with the craft knife; add to this the glue which had been ejected by using the hammer and which could not be removed whilst remaining wet because of lack of access then it presented me with a huge problem; trying to cut through hide glue which has set is very difficult and a lot of damage could be inflicted to the buried moulding. Because there was no definite edge to the joint where veneer met the moulding trying to simply remove excess veneer using abrasive paper of files would obviously work but how would you obtain a perfect line as I'm sure it would end up quite wavy; I could of course be wrong but these were problems I could foresee whilst inspecting the cabinet.
Whatever method I used to remove this excess veneer together with squeezed out hardened glue was going to be difficult and at all costs having reached this far I wanted to avoid inflicting any damage however slight. You've obviously given this some thought Gary and could see the problems to be overcome hence you also wished to avoid causing damage. These two openings together with their rounded over mouldings gave me a great deal of trouble and trying to plan ahead I decided to cut out the MDF router guides whilst access to the edges of the openings was still available because I simply wouldn't know how to proceed until faced with the actual problem.
I'm still quite a novice using a router Gary but I am getting used to it and it wasn't an easy decision to attack this problem with a high speed router because if something went wrong it was going to go wrong very quickly and really mess the job up but I thought the router if it worked would remove both excess veneer and glue very neatly but a lot of care and patience would be called for.
Had I been making a brand new cabinet from scratch it would have been a great deal easier because I could have very accurately quartered the veneer pattern and glued the veneer down onto a solid substrate then once the glue had set running a router around a jig would have given perfectly neat openings; I'm sure this would have been the method used during manufacture of this cabinet but what escapes me is why the moulding profile used is such a plain quadrant?
All your concerns are valid Gary and thanks for raising them because anyone doing a similar job will have many decisions to make and each decision needs taking seriously. Right from the start I didn't even know if I could successfully veneer this cabinet with Burr Walnut in fact I spent a few days deciding whether or not to make a start on it; only when I could visualize the finished cabinet in my head did the cabinet go onto the bench. Another point you raised Gary regards finishing the moulding around both openings and I'll add the front foot to this. The picture I see of the finished cabinet is decent veneer to both sides with the grain running horizontally and beautiful expensive Burr Walnut veneer to the front and top panels; the mouldings and foot will be sprayed with satin black auto lacquer and to the centre of the top panel I see a fancy veneer fan motif inlay. Yes it's ambitious and perhaps I'm dreaming of doing things beyond my capabilities but this is how I see the finished cabinet.
As to actual finish I don't intend to stain and I'm going to experiment with Blonde de-waxed shellac (French polish). Before starting to apply finish I have some way yet to go so will spend time surfing the web and browsing "You Tube" to see if there is any Burr Walnut finishing information available. Once I have the picture in my head this is what I aim for.
When all is said and done what is involved here are a few materials and time spent. I would urge any novice to have a go because really it is virtually impossible to fail 100%, even if the project ends up in a skip doesn't mean total failure because knowledge and some experience will have been gained and where else could you obtain so much hassle; frustration; headaches; sleepless nights and stress for so little outlay?
I hope I don't come across as an expert because if I was I wouldn't be making so many mistakes so take heart because I'm going through exactly the same problems encountered by any novice to veneering. When I succeed with this cabinet I have lots of other ideas to try out. The ones who don't succeed are the ones who don't try hard enough. One thing I am not scared of is to look absolutely stupid in public; life is too short to be held back by lack of confidence; I fully restored my basket case Ekco TV in front of the world on a forum having never attempted such a job previously and knowing absolutely nothing about the workings of a vintage TV; the only thing in my favour was determination. I would say have a go at a project; make all the silly mistakes; push yourself to try new ideas and techniques but above all don't be afraid of failure.
Kind regards, Col.
Yes Lawrence these speed clamps are simply brilliant and a pleasure to use as they can rapidly be applied with a lot of pressure one handed; for many years I've used the standard metal screw type "G" cramps but these can be a real pain needing three hands to get the cramps into position whilst holding the work. I bought my first plastic speed clamp from Poundland and was so impressed that I bought more from Aldi; I'll buy more still if I see any on sale.
Many thanks Gary I'm pleased you too are making good progress with your project. Regarding using super glue to attach loose veneer; I'm using this project as a prototype trying techniques and ideas out. The bit of loose veneer would have easily glued back into position using hide glue and normally I would have made up a small quantity of fresh hide glue but in this instance I had the super glue to hand and after watching the demonstration I thought I would try it out. David and I watched the guy selling this super glue apply a very small quantity to two large steel nuts pressing the nuts together by hand for a few seconds then we were amazed when he threw the nuts onto the floor with quite a bit of force and they didn't come apart.
Normally Gary I would never use super glue on a project such as this especially if I was to use stain but as I don't intend to stain or even part with the cabinet once its restored I wanted to test the superglue because I have other ideas in my head where the use of superglue might come in useful. I removed the clamps last night and sure enough the veneer had gone down tight and remains secure so the glue is so far excellent. Using the glue was extremely easy and with the fine nozzle it went where intended and capillary action drew it deep into the gap; I'm confident that the joint will hold indefinitely but I can understand your concern; long term I'll not be parting with this cabinet so if the joint does ever let go whilst in my care it won't be a problem for me to re-make the joint using hide glue. Had the joint been larger I would not have used the super glue because I'm a fan of hide glue which is perfect for hammer veneering. Here is the joint which will look much better once finished.
Super glued and clamped. Secured joint.
I think Gary if you was faced with trying to trim the veneer accurately around the openings using a knife; abrasive paper or files you would have had one almighty struggle resulting in lots of frustration. I found it very difficult just trying to remove excess veneer with a very sharp craft knife; this veneer is incredibly brittle and as the knife broke through in places it was grabbed by the veneer with great risk of damaging the veneer. Because the veneer was overhanging a rounded over moulding (quadrant) I could not determine an exact cutting line in order to use a steel straightedge with the craft knife; add to this the glue which had been ejected by using the hammer and which could not be removed whilst remaining wet because of lack of access then it presented me with a huge problem; trying to cut through hide glue which has set is very difficult and a lot of damage could be inflicted to the buried moulding. Because there was no definite edge to the joint where veneer met the moulding trying to simply remove excess veneer using abrasive paper of files would obviously work but how would you obtain a perfect line as I'm sure it would end up quite wavy; I could of course be wrong but these were problems I could foresee whilst inspecting the cabinet.
Whatever method I used to remove this excess veneer together with squeezed out hardened glue was going to be difficult and at all costs having reached this far I wanted to avoid inflicting any damage however slight. You've obviously given this some thought Gary and could see the problems to be overcome hence you also wished to avoid causing damage. These two openings together with their rounded over mouldings gave me a great deal of trouble and trying to plan ahead I decided to cut out the MDF router guides whilst access to the edges of the openings was still available because I simply wouldn't know how to proceed until faced with the actual problem.
I'm still quite a novice using a router Gary but I am getting used to it and it wasn't an easy decision to attack this problem with a high speed router because if something went wrong it was going to go wrong very quickly and really mess the job up but I thought the router if it worked would remove both excess veneer and glue very neatly but a lot of care and patience would be called for.
Had I been making a brand new cabinet from scratch it would have been a great deal easier because I could have very accurately quartered the veneer pattern and glued the veneer down onto a solid substrate then once the glue had set running a router around a jig would have given perfectly neat openings; I'm sure this would have been the method used during manufacture of this cabinet but what escapes me is why the moulding profile used is such a plain quadrant?
All your concerns are valid Gary and thanks for raising them because anyone doing a similar job will have many decisions to make and each decision needs taking seriously. Right from the start I didn't even know if I could successfully veneer this cabinet with Burr Walnut in fact I spent a few days deciding whether or not to make a start on it; only when I could visualize the finished cabinet in my head did the cabinet go onto the bench. Another point you raised Gary regards finishing the moulding around both openings and I'll add the front foot to this. The picture I see of the finished cabinet is decent veneer to both sides with the grain running horizontally and beautiful expensive Burr Walnut veneer to the front and top panels; the mouldings and foot will be sprayed with satin black auto lacquer and to the centre of the top panel I see a fancy veneer fan motif inlay. Yes it's ambitious and perhaps I'm dreaming of doing things beyond my capabilities but this is how I see the finished cabinet.
As to actual finish I don't intend to stain and I'm going to experiment with Blonde de-waxed shellac (French polish). Before starting to apply finish I have some way yet to go so will spend time surfing the web and browsing "You Tube" to see if there is any Burr Walnut finishing information available. Once I have the picture in my head this is what I aim for.
When all is said and done what is involved here are a few materials and time spent. I would urge any novice to have a go because really it is virtually impossible to fail 100%, even if the project ends up in a skip doesn't mean total failure because knowledge and some experience will have been gained and where else could you obtain so much hassle; frustration; headaches; sleepless nights and stress for so little outlay?
I hope I don't come across as an expert because if I was I wouldn't be making so many mistakes so take heart because I'm going through exactly the same problems encountered by any novice to veneering. When I succeed with this cabinet I have lots of other ideas to try out. The ones who don't succeed are the ones who don't try hard enough. One thing I am not scared of is to look absolutely stupid in public; life is too short to be held back by lack of confidence; I fully restored my basket case Ekco TV in front of the world on a forum having never attempted such a job previously and knowing absolutely nothing about the workings of a vintage TV; the only thing in my favour was determination. I would say have a go at a project; make all the silly mistakes; push yourself to try new ideas and techniques but above all don't be afraid of failure.
Kind regards, Col.
Happiness is a wreck of a cabinet to restore.
